Expert Advice for Better B2B Marketing Campaigns for Tech Companies

Priscilla McKinney: Today, my guest is Andrew Elder as the SVP for Advanced Analytics at Illuminas, a radius company. He serves as the primary methodological consultant for quantitative insight regarding the company’s technology clients. This is specifically why I have him on today.

You’re going to love this conversation because he brings over 30 years of experience in designing and analyzing advanced survey research projects for some of the world’s best known companies. And he’s presented at conferences across the globe, which I’ve been very lucky to get to hear some of his work, but he’s tutored students and professionals in chaired international conferences on survey innovation. So welcome to the show, Andrew Elder.

Andrew Elder: Thank you, Priscilla. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Priscilla McKinney: Well, we do get a talk shop quite a bit during the year, but this is fun to finally have you on my show. And really for my audience, my desire for having you on really came from the reality that companies are pouring so much money into digital tools and AI. And the real winners are the leaders who can tell the difference between flashy metrics and insights that are really helping you beat the competition.

And that’s what you do for your clients. Help them move that needle. Help them get that competitive advantage. And I do want to hear about your expertise looking at the analytics and actually making something of it. Yeah, it could look really great on a dashboard, but what does it all mean for companies. So let’s kind of start with your bread and butter, which is quantitative research.

And kind of to your point when we were talking about coming on the show, what digital transformation success means for a lot of companies is making good use of quantitative and qualitative research. But tell me what the state of quantitative research is specifically with your expertise of analysis.

Andrew Elder: Yeah. So I would say probably like most of the world, there’s a lot of, a lot of it sits in flux, but I think a lot of it sits more out of expectation than it is out of implementation at this point. I think one thing that we think about internally and that our clients are thinking about is partly what am I doing. What can I do. But what should I be doing. Or what are competitors doing and that’s a big unknown in the sense that AI is I always go back to the the kind of the grounds Truth of it is like AI is magical.

It is it is the single most differentiating thing about this technology from big data from CRM from the internet from anything else that we’ve kind of seen transform our our digital ecosystem special specifically in b2b is that it it has the magical properties of being in our language. So that makes it more compelling than anything else, but also makes it more challenging in terms of actually being able to use it appropriately, because it’s easy to get blown away.

Priscilla McKinney: Before you go on, you said something, and I think I want you to clarify it. Tell me what you meant by the difference between implementation versus expectation. And I’m thinking you’re talking specifically about AI and what we know how to use it to evaluate data. Clarify that for me. In this show, I really try and make sure that we’re not just kind of glossing over ideas, but I think that’s something new that you brought up for me.

Andrew Elder: Yeah, absolutely. So, well, I think of it like in our world, there’s probably the clear delineation between using tools for efficiency, for speed, for new insight on old data, which is almost all value add. I mean, just the fact that, you know, secondary research if I’m researching a client or pulling together a methodology or trying to extrapolate something new that I’m not sure is going to be part of this project or that this outcome is like.

That secondary tool of accessing knowledge through AI and distilling all of this information through a queryable lens is just, an absolute game changer. And that is really at all levels of our organization, I think at all levels of most organizations. That is a gateway to speed and expertise that we just didn’t have before in anywhere the same kind of way. It was incumbent on, you know, the things that were in my head and, you know, our expertise in the tech industry. Well, that was a clear differentiator because we would just talk amongst ourselves and pool all of our knowledge and there we would go. But now that knowledge exists in better detail and with greater access everywhere.

So we can’t just be relying on our old kind of ways of doing things, but we also have to assume that that ground level, that base assessment is now more ubiquitous. So we have to take it somewhere differently. And then I guess I just distinguish that from what is actually new insight or what is a new capability that is revolutionary or at least evolutionary in a way that really has us rethinking if what, first of all, is what we’re doing in the research world even relevant anymore for certain kind of research or certain kind of products. Or is there now this incredible new tool that allows us to go about a different way and we have to step back and rethink that.

Priscilla McKinney: So Andrew, tell us a little bit about what you do day to day. Let’s put it in some language that Priscilla can understand here.

Andrew Elder: Absolutely. I touch on lot of different parts of the business. I guess at the highest level, it’s working across the organization to make sure that we’re evolving our methodological initiatives, that we’re evolving our technology initiatives, and that we’re doing that using the collective wisdom of Illuminas and now all of Radius.

That’s at the highest level. But then step down below that, it’s collaborating on specific projects, on methodologies, proposals, really trying to address client problems, both in current proposal form, but also trying to anticipate what that next level looks like, and that’s highly integrated with the first bit.

And then further down, it’s really, sometimes it’s very specific projects, it’s very specific clients, either working with my expertise in a particular methodology or just trying to help pull together or synthesize insights. Set up client engagements and a lot of more relationship kind of building as well. So it’s kind of a grab bag across those levels.

Priscilla McKinney: But at the end of the day, really taking the data, you’re taking numbers or insights, and you’re helping make sure that it’s meaningful. How do I translate what we’re collecting out there in research and bringing that to the client. And it’s my understanding that your expertise is in the quantitative side of research.

Okay, so let’s start there because I think that’s where you can provide some real benefit for my audience. So what is the state of quantitative research and analysis that you do, especially as AI is developing so rapidly. What are you hearing and what are you doing.

Andrew Elder: Yeah. Well, at the ground level, it’s an incredibly powerful tactical tool. And whether that means we’re consulting AI sources for background for proposals or strategic implications for findings, or whether it’s just moving data along faster in terms of the traditional you know, giant global study with, you know, thousands of respondents and coming through cross tabs to try and find implications or meaning, is still something that happens. But in a, in a very different environment now, we are using AI tools to identify those trends, identify those differences, and also help craft that story in a way that just is faster and at scale beyond what humans are good at doing. So as a tool, it’s invaluable.

The bigger picture, I think, or the way I think about it is what is it that our clients are doing without us. Because having something as magical as AI, as ChatGPT, as all the other platforms that now can take synthesis of a massive amount of data and put it in your language and respond to your queries. If I were a research buyer or if I were doing my own analysis, the first thing I would do is start asking my various platforms, what can I learn.

What’s the state of knowledge out there. So that’s part of the conversation we’re always having is what treating our baseline now is different in terms of what clients do on their own. And then how do we leverage that and improve upon that. And in particularly, where the quantitative gaps that research is still most valuable and then in kind of a circuitous way, what can we feed back into the corpus of various tools to then leverage that.

Priscilla McKinney: I love that and kind of always upwardly improving. Okay, so I hear you say there’s a paradigm shift now. Everybody has AI tools and so people might say, so I don’t need research. Ha ha. So yes, you can use those as powerful tools to analyze, but that’s a mindset shift that you’re dealing with. But how do the particular challenges of B2B audiences and B2B work that you’re an expert in fit within that shift. What are you seeing in that particular vertical.

Andrew Elder: Yeah. So I think B2B is always a different animal. And I think there’s two ways that AI, in particular, and technology in general has kind of changed that. That one, the complexity of B2B is always an order of magnitude beyond typical B2C. And that we assume when we’re talking to a consumer, we’re getting kind of the straight insight into their thoughts, their wishes, their desires, or if we’re trailing a data stream we’re taking those dots and we’re connecting to something else. Whereas in B2B, you’re dealing at organizational decisions that are made through individuals.

Those individuals have different roles, different levels of influence and different ways of manifesting whatever outcome it is you’re looking at. So it’s incredibly complicated. AI helps us navigate that in a lot, sort of more efficient way that we can now sort of simulate or articulate lots of different types of influencers through that through that tool.

But what I think the leading challenge that we don’t see a clear solution for anytime soon is how would you take that from like an AI input and turn it into action or predictive action. Because again, a lot of these decisions are collaborative. A lot of them are taken over time. A lot of them are very contextual and situation based. Like I’m giving you all of my inputs about this brand or this pricing decision, but we have a limited vendor list. We only make that decision once a year, and that’s not now.

And those are all things that we can determine in a conversation and try and extrapolate. Those really aren’t types of information that are readily available out in the, at least in terms of if we look at AI as a prediction engine, right. That’s just taking loads of input and doing an extraordinary thing to try and predict, you know, verbiage and around what the answer is. And there is just not a lot that would suggest that AI is the right tool for trying to understand a collaborative decision in a very dynamic environment.

Priscilla McKinney: Right. And you say collaborative decision. And I know that you and I have talked a lot about how in enterprise solutions, that buyer group is growing. It’s not one person sitting at a desk making a decision. So when using AI to analyze that, well, a one particular person may take this particular course. But when you have a large buyer group that is affecting this, this buyer journey for a very large tech solution you know, these, these are complications that, you know, AI to your point doesn’t know.

Now, of course, I love what you said there. Of course we can feed it better information. And of course that upward spiral, we can always be improving, but this is right here and now. The reality is, that tech companies are looking to you to ask, what do I need to do in this actual competitive environment today. Right. So that, that is super important to be able to buy 4K, this is what AI can know and this is what AI can’t as of now, or at least it can’t take the whole into consideration. So that is really important when we’re thinking about giving advice to companies about the competitive context, but kind of let’s back up a little bit. Tell me why that competitive context is so important in the quantitative research that you do.

Andrew Elder: Yeah, so that’s one of the crucial areas that we see is ongoing in terms of the evolution of thinking as it relates to market research, but also as it relates to competitive situations in general, which is that the competitive context is absolutely crucial. And this is, on the one hand, from the survey side or from the quantitative side, the first thing we always have to juggle is we have a very limited amount of attention that we have when we’re going out and in any context, I guess, qualitative or quantitative. And we have to make the most of that.

And so, but especially in a quantitative survey, we would love to know the full breadth of everything that you’re considering, who does what well, what ultimately, backtrack me through this whole purchase decision. But we don’t have time to do that. And frankly, it’s a little bit of a game to treat humans like robots that can fully articulate everything that they did to lead up to their decision.

So the way that that kind of has evolved through measurements, like in the brand world or in the loyalty world was, you only need one metric, the only thing you need to know is recommendation, and that’s gonna tell you what you need to know about your position. Which, you know, if you’re not measuring anything, measuring recommendation is great, it’s great to start there somewhere, but it looks good on a dashboard, kind of as you were articulating earlier, but it doesn’t really help any of the decision makers in terms of how do I move the needle, why especially in a B2B context, what else is feeding into that and who else do I need to worry about.

So, all right, so we need to get beyond that. And so that’s, think, well recognized that getting beyond one metric is really important, but we have this choice because we have limited time. We kind of go broad and understand the lay of the marketplace and the competitive landscape, or we go deep and try and understand like, what’s going on in that relationship or in that product or in that pricing situation.

And, you know, we want to do both. And what we keep coming back to is that kind of first priorities are necessary to capture at that competitive context. Because whether it’s recommendation or anything else, if I think positively about your brand, yes, that’s good. That’s better than being negative, right. But it’s not enough.

And I have to not only think positively about your brand, I have to think about it, how that fits my needs relative to other options that I have out there. And until you know that, like all the positioning or all the pricing or all the features that go under that actually aren’t all that helpful. Because if I think positively about your brand, but I think positively about 10 brands because I’m always in the market, you we have, have, we have 10 vendors. We’re always on a refresh cycle. I’m going to send out the RFP to all 10. Like that’s just the commodity game. That’s not what we want to be.

Priscilla McKinney: Okay, anybody who’s in this world should be laughing or crying right now with what you said. yes, we recommend all 10 of these vendors. And I love how you’re kind of referring to this. And I will assume that you’re referring to the NPS, the infamous Net Promoter Score. And that seems to be what people used to consider to be the end-all be-all. But to your point, yeah, I’d recommend all 10.

Okay, well, how does that help me. How does that help me understand where my brand fits here. And you know, it’s kind of like I tell people all the time in marketing Often you’re asking the wrong question or the wrong person and so for example when someone has a big idea for a new company You know, they’ll go to their friend or to their mom and say hey, this is my idea for a company And you know what they say.

I love it, honey. Right, and they give you the answer you want and so that’s my funny way of like making connections with the mps You know, your mom’s job is to support you. And we have learned as consumers, even as sophisticated, you know, CEO, buyers of technology consumers, we have learned that when they’re asking me, do you like this idea. I say, yes, honey.

I sure do. And so I love what you’re saying here that there has to be, yes, a quick ability to get informed about what people are saying. Because you can’t know everything in every single piece of context, but there’s got to be a way of capturing the complexity now I asked you on specifically because of one thing I’ve heard you talk about which is a Concept at radius called the science of winning. Can you tell me a little bit more about that.

Andrew Elder: Yeah, absolutely. So science of winning is something that we have started at the branding level. It’s very much based on the idea that, just what we were talking about, that having the high Net Promoter Score or the high Recommendation Score, just performance in general, is necessary but not sufficient.

And what that’s building on is over 10 years of research that came from Dr. Tim Cunningham and his co-authors with regard to the wallet allocation rule which was basically a series of research specifically to kind of work out the weaknesses of NPS, which showed that basically the absolute score is very poor at predicting future outcomes. Relative position is much stronger at predicting future outcomes, including share of wallet.

So we’ve been very firm believers in that methodology and continue to incorporate that into our brand evaluation. But it really goes beyond that, because the concept applies to a lot of different things. But in the brand context or in the positioning context, it’s crucial for people to understand that capturing sentiment, capturing, even positioning white space, right, to go out and try and articulate what your brand stands for is useful, but only to the degree that you elevate your brand.

Meaning if you, mean, and part of this is like relevance, like you go out and claim an attribute that nobody cares about, it’s not gonna move the needle, right. That’s kind of the obvious part of like positioning one-on-one. But the bigger picture is like, like we’re talking about, like, okay, I’m gonna go for, I’m tired of being a value brand, I wanna be a premium brand.

Well, there are other premium brands and what that means may mean different things. And again, you can spend a lot of time going into a lot of depth about like, well, when we mean premium, it’s gonna be materials, but this premium is gonna mean, none of it really matters that much unless it elevates your brand.

And to put simply, the science of winning is becoming the most premium or having the best service or best experience and translating that into being a brand that elevates among others, not just a considered brand, not just a recommended brand, but the most recommended brand. Now that sounds like a really high bar. And so you think like, well, that only applies to, know, market leader X or market with, know, somebody with like a massive marketing budget.

But it’s not, it’s not at all because again, it’s relative to your competitive set. And so this is where in the B2B world, you know, we have a ton of clients who are in, you know, data centers or they’re in like technology stacks and there is no one winner because they’re built on all of these series of pieces.

But every brand is there for a reason. And so yes, if you want to own the entire relationship, if you want to be like the Microsoft or whatever in at the infrastructure level, maybe that top level is most important. But for the most part, you just need to be best at what you’re known for within your category, your subcategory, that’s where elevating your brand is crucial.

And you can still make a great deal of, of hay in terms of wallet share by doing that. Otherwise, yeah, you’re improving your brand, maybe even improving your recognition, the, you know, again, kind of like very top of funnel things like we need to, you know, just we need to be more present. Sure, you do, but that presence has to be leading towards winning, basically.

Priscilla McKinney: Okay, let’s say that I completely agree with you, which Andrew normally in every conversation I completely agree with you. But let’s just say I have brand X and I agree with you and I want to see what this looks like. So I want to engage in the science of winning for my brand.

Tell me a little bit about some of the methodologies that you might employ to help me understand that or what kind of quantitative approaches would you take to give me the data where I could make a decision. Like how do I go about that. Because it sounds amazing.

Like you’re saying there is a new rubric that I could understand that would be so much more comprehensive and help me gain that competitive advantage. Okay, it lands on your desk, Andrew. What do you do.

Andrew Elder: Yeah, so the great news for anybody coming to us with that is that the first step is really often built on traditional funnel metrics or just even if you don’t even like the funnel, if you want to argue that the funnels are relevant, just basic KPIs. Pretty much anything that is leading towards engagement and intention, we can use as a foundation for the science of winning. That said, we have a preferred approach which would get us to the results faster, or there are additional components that make it more meaningful.

Easy enough to say we can build on your traditional funnel metrics, but let’s take a ridiculous example. We once had a very notable tech CEO tell us that even NPS was too much. I just need to know whether a client is going to buy me or not. Yes, no. Which is kind like a very executive thing, saying like black and white, yes, it’s, and that’s true. I mean, in the sense of that conversation, you know, yes, are you, you buying me. Great. That’s all I need. But in the reality of competitive measurement, there’s not a lot of differentiation between, like we said earlier, the eight yeses that I might have that are all part of my data stack.

So you need to have a certain granularity of information. And so again, you have, you may have your scale of choice or your measurement of choice. We don’t need to reinvent that wheel, but by and large though, we do need enough granularity to identify that brands are actually moving the needle and able to differentiate from one another. Then there is the extension of the core brand funnel. And by that, just assume I always mean like sort of some level of familiarity and engagement, awareness, and then whatever your outcome that you care most about, sort of multiple outcomes.

And then below that though, again, like what are you marketing towards. What are your action plans oriented towards. And is it oriented towards affinity or is it oriented towards like tangible benefits. Again, we would come at this and say, you kind of want to capture a lot of those different elements because they all matter to some degree in different markets. But again, those have to be captured in a way that identify not just what brands are doing, because again, a lot of big brands have a lot of footprints and they’re gonna get a halo on a lot of different benefits.

We ask people to identify then the clear winner. At what point did a brand elevate in their customer service. Or yes, you like these brands, but which one has really got your loyalty, you love to work with and so on. So again, capturing that is crucial to then identifying that correlation of elevating the attribute, elevating the brand outcomes and how that fits in with the rest of stream. So there’s kind of like overall salience of the brand funnel, like how present are you. That’s important.

There’s loyalty, there’s preference. Those things are really important. And then the actual components of the building blocks of the brand position that were pretty flexible on because we can go tell you that it has to be X, and Z. And if you’re not able to action against a loyalty campaign or your set of core features is not aligned with what we think it is, then it only makes sense to measure what you can actually affect. So that’s a much more customized element.

Priscilla McKinney: Right. I feel like for CEOs, we’re often in a place where we’re fearful. And for a B2B CEO, we’re thinking about B2B marketing trends and looking at them and saying, oh, are we going to be left behind in this one or that one. And so it’s hard to kind of turn the other way and say, no, I’m going to look at the data. I’m going to really understand what’s going on with my buyer as opposed to just seeing what my other competitors are doing out there. So when, I would love to go back to that conversation of that CEO that said, I’m sorry, I just need a yes, no. So what was your answer to that when he’s really looking for a B2B marketing strategy framework that’s going to work, but yet he wants to make it so simple. Where would you even, you where would you start with him.

Andrew Elder: Well, that was a pretty easy one because we just inserted a yes-no question into the survey. We did what said and we still had the rest of the framework. So that was actually a pretty easy one to navigate. And then there was the soft selling around the like, sure, it’s important. Getting to yes is important. And here’s how you get to yes. And it’s all through elevating the brand and so forth. So there’s some backdoor ways to get what you need out of that.

Priscilla McKinney: Well, a little bit more to that fear. And, you know, I think you would agree that research is the antidote to living in fear when it comes to what should I do in my next B2B marketing campaign. Get the data. But, you know, how often are you in a situation, just reality right now, where people either don’t want the data or they’re not actioning based on the data that you provide. Is there some frustration in that right now.

Andrew Elder: Yeah, absolutely. I think with B2B especially, but I don’t know if this is even radically different in B2B or in B2C. It’s one thing to rely on the data and learn from that. And then there is this process of taking it to action. I think, but especially in B2B where action can be really complicated.

And not just complicated, there’s not just complicated in the sense of the layers and the influence and all of the different like actual cogs in the wheel, if you will, but just all the different stages and how those stages overlap again across product lines and across timing and more so even on like overall technology innovation. Like I’m buying a bunch of PCs and that’s pretty standard and that what do we need to know about that. Let’s just put that on autopilot, make sure people get the quotes and we’re know, customizing whatever we need to for their installation.

And that’s probably true most of the time, but okay, now we’re doing, I don’t know, like with COVID, like we had this like total, like, you know, now like remote work shift. So now those PC orders were in a completely different context where, and this is like super tactical, but it’s also really true that like we’re not just populating a bunch of desks in an office, we now have to get people out to all these, we have to care about microphones, we have to care about, yeah.

That all of a sudden changes the level of handholding and no, wait, do we have the software installed. What controls do we have over quality and how are we gonna get people to collaborate. Completely different than just a standard refresh cycle. And of course, you go through different technologies, hardware, software, especially, now it’s just all the more complicated about how do I get to that decision. So I think in terms of thinking about that specific go-to-market and what do I need to get to that buyer to help them make a choice.

It can seem like there’s this insurmountable gap between you gave me this big picture, you know, insight in terms of what’s driving my brand or what makes my brand successful versus others and what’s elevating the brand. But at the end of the day, I need, you know, to respond to an email or I need to make sure that somebody who clicks on this gets this collateral or that. And that is a daunting task, which I do not envy anybody.

But I think the problem is there’s often a desire to basically kind of like take the learnings from the research and then either kind of discard it or set it aside because it doesn’t immediately fit into that like very functional segmented view. And what I keep trying to kind of come back to is like, again, if you didn’t have any other information and somebody came to your website and they, you know, clicked on, you know, get a quote well, you’re just going to send them the quote and that’s going to be done.

But what would you do differently if that person came in and said, I just had my budget cut in half. I need the most price competitive quote you can give me and this is what my platform looks like. No frills versus somebody who’s like, we’re completely moving to the cloud. We’re changing the way that people work. We need desktops that are having much higher horsepower because of that yada, yada, yada give me a quote. Well, that’s a completely different experience.

Now, the flow of get them the quote, get them the backup collateral, schedule a meeting, maybe that’s not any different, but it should influence how you as an organization are either A, reaching out on a person-to-person basis or the type of automation or prompting even that you’re setting up in your agentic future of realizing that don’t just send the quote, if this, if this, if this, push it in this context.

Priscilla McKinney: I love that. So you are constantly giving clients advice about what things they should be thinking about in their studies, how complex and how simple, right. So you gave me some very complex examples and some very simple examples.

So let’s kind of end on this because since I have an expert on the line, I’m going to call him up. Ring, ring, Andrew, I’m calling you. And I really want expert advice for a better brand outcome. And I know that my marketing is not hitting the right notes. Where do you start with that. Because it is a big conversation.

How could you put my audience at ease and maybe help them ask themselves a few questions first so they know where to start. What kind of research do I need. Where should I go first. Like, how do you just start that conversation a little bit.

Andrew Elder: Yeah. Well, I guess, I mean, some of it is going to revolve around basics in terms of how well do you understand your audience. How well can we target and, and focus on specific influencer types or, or industry bases or what have you.

Because part of that then, I mean, it’s related, right. In terms of like, if I, if I have this very targeted understanding of my, of my audience, then we can kind of cut to the chase on that and probably dive deeper on what it really takes to understand your brand in a more tangible way.

Whereas if this is more exploratory, this is broader. I mean, even a question like the competitive set, like trying to understand who you are competing against might not be something that we actually are easily able to articulate without really going through a lot of revisions and maybe even some additional research or a first phase of research. You can understand how that competitive set is perceived.

And that’s maybe again, another area where AI actually is a pretty good tool for helping advance that conversation. But once you get down into that, would say then, let’s again, let’s treat it like the funnel is kind of a starting point. Funnel for what. Funnel for a product, a solution, a brand, a platform. Those are very different decisions.

And maybe those are multiple decisions that all lead to the same place or maybe, but again, needing to understand that because relating then down to the line of what are you trying to influence and what are you trying to action against, if it’s like a very targeted product level determination, well then we need to reach at the influencer at that level, but also talk about or analyze the competitive set and the go-to-market and the competitive advantages in the context of that product as it sits within a tier or a hierarchy or a brand or whatever. Whereas if this is very much like a, this is a big platform decision, it’s probably a lot fewer competitors, but it’s a much bigger scale, different kind of influencer.

The brand model itself probably is simpler in context or sorry, simpler in execution because we’re talking about this big picture thing. But now the decision making is much more complex because you know that at that platform level, it’s going to touch a lot more people. It’s going to have a lot more must haves or have to go through a lot more gates.

So that then like can be simpler up here, but then what you’re actually analyzing might be very more diffused in terms of what buttons can I push and where. So that’s, guess I would say like, we try and keep everything within kind of like a consistent framework of how do you influence the outcome and what are the components around that. But whether you’re engaging at sort of this platform level all the way down to a very targeted brand level can change what that looks like and how you get there.

Priscilla McKinney: I love that. And that really brings us full circle to where I started. You know, as more companies are pouring tons of money into digital tools and AI in order to help them understand the consumer.

Again, the real winners will be leaders who can tell the difference between flashy metrics and actual insights that give them that ability to beat their competition. And I know that having someone on their team and as a partner to really understand advanced analytics and read the digital signs is really important in order to cut through that noise and make those strategic moves that will actually grow the business instead of just, yep, I did the report, here I am looking at the dashboard.

So we all want growth and that is the hardest thing to manage. But I can totally see, Andrew, how the really a digital literacy and a literacy with analytics and a literacy with these tools is super important for getting ahead in the tech world anymore.

Andrew Elder: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Priscilla McKinney: I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for joining me, Andrew. As always, it’s a pleasure to talk to you.

Andrew Elder: Yeah Priscilla, my pleasure. Thank you so much.